The CSM Title Is Disappearing. The Job Isn't. ft. Christina Parra, Kellie Woodin, Ariel Risman (Notion)

This time last year, we were asking how to use AI in our day-to-day. Now, retention leaders are asking, “What does the CSM look like a year from now?” Notion’s approach was to rethink the role, and it’s completely changed how they help customers succeed.

This week, Notion’s Christina Parra (Head of Outcomes Architects), Kellie Woodin (Commercial Outcomes Architect), and Ariel Risman (Outcomes Architect) joined host Josh Schachter for the [Un]Churned episode, “211. Notion’s Outcomes Architects on Why CSMs Don’t Need Experience Anymore.” They discussed how Notion merged its renewal manager and CSM motions into one commercial function, what it looks like to run workshops with 190 people across an entire customer org, and how a four-stage AI maturity model shapes every account plan they build.

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🎯 The [Un]Churned Take: Usage-Based Pricing Is Here, and It’s Changing Everything

The SaaS equivalent of the classic grandparent adage, “back in my day, we walked 15 miles through the snow,” is quickly becoming, “back in my day, we priced everything per seat.” And that era is fading fast. Gartner projects that by 2030, 40% of SaaS vendors will offer usage- or outcome-based pricing. Bloomberg expects outcome-based pricing alone to jump from about 10% to 60% of the market in the same window.

This shift from seats to consumption and outcomes fundamentally changes renewal conversations. Instead of ending with a number, it sparks a broader dialogue about value delivered, real business outcomes, and how a customer’s needs are evolving over time.

Selling Work, Not Software

When outcomes drive both goals and pricing, what does that mean for Customer Success? Notion, an AI workspace for teams and agents, tackled this by rethinking what they’re paid for and changing how their teams work with customers.

“We’re not selling software, we’re selling work.”
— Kellie Woodin, Commercial Outcomes Architect, Notion

As vendors start charging separately for post-sales work, premium support, professional services, and agentic workflows, these services are no longer bundled into a license. When “the work” becomes the product, a drop in usage isn’t just a loss to fix. Instead, it shows the workflow no longer fits the customer’s needs and is a chance to help them build something new.

“Previously, if they had some kind of contraction in seats, the best we could do is try to get them back up. But now if there is a little bit of contraction here, maybe we talk about some workflows where we can get some custom agents, increase credit usage, and then we can make up some revenue there.”
— Kellie Woodin, Commercial Outcomes Architect, Notion

The CSM Role Is Evolving

As companies move from selling software licenses to offering tailored services and measurable results, Customer Success teams can’t rely on the old generalist approach. They need to rethink how roles are set up and who drives value. With AI handling much of the routine work, the CSM role is changing. It now requires more specialization, strategic thinking, and a new way of working with customers.

Most companies have responded by having some CSMs focus on renewals and commercial talks, while others handle adoption and technical issues. Notion took a different approach. Their outcomes architect role covers both workflows and numbers, turning the traditional CSM job into a value-realization powerhouse.

“What stands out about CSMs that are successful now is curiosity, agency, urgency, and a lot of that is baked into our values. It’s not necessarily about having a ton of experience. It’s about being really willing to learn and having that hunger and then trying it out for yourself.”
— Christina Parra, Head of Outcomes Architects, Notion

Leaving “Back in My Day” Behind

The move to consumption-based pricing gives customer teams a chance to redefine their impact. As technology changes roles and opens new possibilities, the most successful organizations will face change with curiosity and a willingness to reinvent themselves.

Whether you use a specialized team structure or a model like Notion’s, where one role shapes the outcome, what really matters is building stronger partnerships and working toward a shared idea of value. Consumption-based pricing hasn’t made CS obsolete, but it’s made the old CSM role unrecognizable.

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🎧 Listen for These Moments

The full episode dives into how Notion’s outcomes architects run their workshops and manage their commercial work each day. Here are three moments to listen for:

1. The AI maturity model: Christina’s four-stage framework (thought partner, personal assistant, teammate, system) that Notion uses to diagnose where a customer actually is before recommending a workflow.

2. The 190-person workshop: Ariel shares how one big AI session brought together revenue, HR, and engineering, and how these workshops help Notion grow.

3. The feature-request pipeline: a multi-agent system that listens to Gong calls and Slack messages, checks Salesforce, and logs requests automatically.

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🔎 Where to Find the Speakers

• Christina Parra — LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christina-wills/

• Kellie Woodin — LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelliewoodin/

• Ariel Risman — LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ariel-risman/

• Josh Schachter — LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/

📎 Referenced in This Episode

• Notion — AI workspace for teams and agents; Christina, Kellie, and Ariel’s employer

• Gong — conversation intelligence platform that feeds Notion’s automated feature-request intake system

• Salesforce — CRM that Notion’s feature-request agents check against to confirm customer status

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Wrapping Up

“Back in my day” is officially yesterday, and the teams ready to reinvent themselves will define what comes next.

See you next week 🧠